4/29/26 Land Use Board Meeting

I'd
>> like to call the meeting to order. Flag
salute. Please
>> to the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all.
>> Okay. April 28th, 2026 meeting. This
meeting was advertised in the press of
Atlantic City and the Hamilton Gazette
and notice was posted on the bulletin
board at a Carver City Municipal Board.
I would ask Donna to put that into the
minutes, please.
>> Roll call. Donna.
Mr. Walker
>> here.
>> Mr. McKenna
>> here.
>> Mr. Peterson
>> here.
>> Mr. Molina
>> here.
>> Mr. Fick
>> here.
>> Mr. Hayes
>> here.
>> All right. Approval of the minutes for
March 17th. Can I have a motion?
>> Motion.
>> Second.
>> All in favor? I
>> opposed.
All right. Moving on.
No resolutions tonight. New business
application 20261
DMB White Horse Pike LLC. You want to
step forward and be sworn in, please.
Sher, you want to raise your right hand?
You solemnly swear the testimony you're
about to provide today will be the
truth, the whole truth, nothing but the
truth. So, I'll help be always. Yes.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the
board, my name is Chris Balson and I
represent
LUV DMBB LLC with respect to its
application this evening to the planning
board here seeking a use variance
for a use that's not permitted as well
as um two uses on one site. There's an
existing use on the site. The site's
identified as Six White Horse Pike. It's
block 526, lot 1.01.
to the highway commercial zone and the
use that is proposed which is a
contractor's highway contractor's uh
storage of vehicles inside and equipment
to the exterior of an existing building
on the site um I'm sure everybody's
familiar with that on the site is an
existing retail um use type of use um
which has been there from what I
understand for quite some time u the
otherwise the property sat vacant for a
while and was previously a used car uh
dealership with repairs. Also, a use
that proposed is similar, which like I
said is a a highway contractor that has
highway directional equipment, which
they'll store there in the evening, as
well as vehicles inside. Because of the
other use that's on the property and
this use, as I said, it's a devariance
with respect to the two uses and a
devariance with respect to the use. I
know Ryan had suggested this maybe an
aggravation of of the current
devariance. I think it's just two
variances. It's a use variance and a two
use variance. Andy Schaefer is the
engineer who prepared the plan to speak
with respect to use variance. Rather
than me saying everything once and then
we had to say it again, I'll go to Andy.
Thank you very much for having special
meeting. Uh there is a tenant proposed
who is ready to go and uh so we
appreciate you guys giving me time.
>> All right. So the pro the property is
located it's block 5107 lot 1.01
uh 334 wide horse pike. It's in the
highway commercial zone.
It's an existing building.
I'm sorry that the shaded area is the
seating. That's the asphalt that we're
doing and the gravel area in the back
that we're proposing. So, there's an
existing 2,430 ft plus or minus uh
building that's existing, has asphalt on
both sides and the White House pipe.
>> Currently vacant,
>> currently vacant and a little bit
looking to evapoated. So, they've
already
started a little ahead of the gun, but
they've already started. They resided
the building. They're re um surfacing
the parking lot and they're
redistributing gravel in the back where
there's a gravel space that the
applicant is going to talk about later
on as to what was there and what is
going to be there. And so there's no
expansion of existing or proposed gravel
or impervious spaces. So we are asking
for a D1 variance to allow the
contractor storage and commercial
vehicle outdoor storage. So we are
asking for eight vehicles to be stored
outside.
Essentially turns into about 16 trips a
day. They come in and come out in the
daytime. It's a traffic control type of
business where they put the these days
they nobody none of the contractors do
it themselves. They hire a traffic
control. Traffic plan is a good example
of the name of the company but that's
not this company. So when when there's a
a highway project or roadway project,
particularly on city highways or county
highways, county roads, um these guys
set up and do the directional work for
the contractor doing the actual road
work.
>> That's correct. So it's done a little
differently than it was 15 years ago,
whereas the contractor did all that
stuff themselves. So some of the
permitted uses include our cannabis
retail instit institutional uses bowling
alley bank general business retails and
services
everything almost except for storage
outside vehicles which is what we're
asking for and storage inside of the
building not occupied by employees
but cones signs that sort of thing. So,
they're going to have an office inside.
I I will be honest with that, but
they're not planning on manning that
office. So, it's basically zero
employees during the day. It's eight
vehicles in, excuse me, out and eight
vehicles in in the afternoon.
>> That's morning and night. You drop the
pick the vehicle up, bring it back at
night.
>> So, that means it's a relatively minimal
use as compared to some of the other
things that are permitted in some. So,
it's not going to create a lot of
traffic. It's not going to create a lot
of nuisance. It's going to create an
upgrade to what we see visually in terms
of the paving being redone. And the
facade, which I found offline, is
already done.
>> Now, Andy, the the application mentioned
a site plan waiver. We're not asking for
a site plan waiver indefinitely. Um,
what we'd like to do is obviously get
the tenant in there, let him operate,
come back before this board for a site
plan with the site improvements that are
proposed for the use
>> with an arguable agreement. Yes. Meaning
that they aren't improving anything
that's not already there, but in the
sense of just being upfront, we're
willing to come back within 6 months
site plan approval for what we believe
is already there. In other words, a
travel space in the back. Does it have
weeds and so forth grown through it?
Well, it it did a few days ago. Now it
doesn't, but it was already there. The
asphalt space in front, was it already
there? Yes. It was it in need of
rehabilitation? Yes, it was being done.
Was the building already there? Yes, it
was already there. Was it in need of
rehabilitation? Yes. And that's already
being done. As for the site plan
approval will obviously help harbor city
going forward with respect to site how
site circulation is going to work what
the improvements are going to be so we
know what enforcement mechanisms can
take place standard site plan um
improvements and checklist items that
you find from the ordinance.
>> Yes. So now coming to the variance
whether the proposed use will promote
the general welfare welfare or whether
the development of the property is
particularly suited for the proposed the
existing building can accommodate
every proposed use that it's currently
configured. In other words, it's not
being modified to be configured to
accommodate the use because it already
is there. And this will be the m the
goals of the master plan rediv
revitalization
of the area which this has been the
subject of redevelopment several times
before. So
>> with with a variety of uses that aren't
in the ordinance now but that were
proposed although those redevelopment
plans never came to fruition.
>> That's correct. So if we were to propose
the special reasons under 40 and 55D2-G
a first of all
>> positive criteria which
>> positive criteria to encourage the
municipal action to guide the
appropriate use of development of all
lands in the state in a manner which
will promote the public health well
safety welfare of everybody. That's hard
to say. This site is particularly well
suited due to its proximity to an oral
arterial street and not being near
residential. Under item E in the same
citation to promote the establishment of
appropriate population densities and
concentrations that will con contribute
to the well-being of persons,
neighborhoods, communities, regions and
preservation of the environment. The
proposed use is consistent with these
family uses that in mostly that it's not
near residential and it's not a high
traffic impact type thing we're trying
to add to the area. And last, I'll rub
it in. G to provide sufficient space in
appropriate locations for a variety of
agricultural, residential, recreational,
commercial industrial uses and open
space both public and private according
to the respective environmental
requirements in order to meet the needs
of New Jersey. This site is again
particularly well suited due to its
surrounding by non residential uses and
access particularly well access to
transportation infrastructure. And last
to promote the desirable visual
environment under item I the site is
being paved and resided.
So the site is already before we came
here looking much better than it did
before.
>> With respect to the negative criteria
whether the variance can be granted
without substantial detriment public
good without substantially tearing the
intended purpose of the zone plan and
zoning ordinance.
>> So what? Yes.
>> And why do you say that? because we are
not adding a high impact
traffic to what is already a fairly well
trafficked area and there is no no
detriments of any consequence that I can
see zoning wise or impact in terms of
development and operation of the site
compared to what could be there that we
already talked about in terms of
permitted uses.
>> What about particular suitability with
respect to the property? And don't
forget there's another use on it. Do you
think the site can accommodate what is
proposed along with the
retail personal service use that's
>> so the personal service use that is
already there operating out of a former
house is a massage parlor basically and
the traffic impact of that is minimal
and has been associated with the site
for a number of years
and therefore you think the site the
fact it's also been a prior used car lot
and repair facility can accommodate the
what's proposed with this application.
>> Yes. To a lesser impact to what was
originally
improved to be as a car dealership
and repair service as well as the
massage.
>> Um, thank you very much, Mr. Shaver.
>> Before you leave, Mr. Shaver, I know
you've probably appeared before this
board too many times to count, but just
for the record, uh, you're a licensed
professional engineering planner in
state.
>> I got my license eight days ago.
>> Okay.
Your testimony has been previously
accepted by this board as an expert.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mark.
>> Mark, would you give me introduce
yourself to the board and tell tell the
board what your role is in the project.
Absolutely.
>> Can you use the microphone?
>> Yep.
>> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, sir, do you
solemnly swear to tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth
you got?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Your name for the record?
>> Mark Had.
>> I'm sorry. Could you spell your last
name?
>> Yes. H A D N E T.
>> Had
>> Mark, you you're a principal in the
applicant living liability company?
>> Yes. And you you and your company do do
development work in the South area. Yes.
>> Among other places.
>> Yeah.
>> And you acquired this site, am I right?
>> Yes.
>> You've acquired a tenant for the site as
well. True.
>> Yes, we have.
>> Explain to the board who that tenant is
and uh their timeline with respect to
getting it going operating from the
site.
>> Looking to get going yesterday
basically. But uh Northwest Traffic
Control is the is the company. They're a
subsidiary of um JF Riley, rather large
um traffic. They do safety equipment for
for a lot of the highway work when
they're redoing roads or they're redoing
count, you know, the parkway or whatever
they're doing, they do a lot of the
safety work for that. And assuming that
this board allows uh Riley or Northwest
to to get to begin operating from the
site tomorrow or the next day, whatever
it may be, um you would commit to come
back before this board with respect to a
site plan, a major site plan approval
and um address whatever conditions or
whatever um items Ryan and the board
come up with tonight or going forward
with respect to that site plan.
>> Yes, we would. And what kind of time do
you think you would need in order to
have Andy prepare the site plan? Uh,
okay. Property has to be surveyed, site
plan has to be prepared. Um, and put in
six months on property 6 months. Does
that sound at a minimum what would be
needed to come back for the board with
the full site plan? I
>> I would say that would be fair.
>> Okay. And with respect to temporarily,
uh, you will install site lighting for
purposes of security.
>> Yes.
>> Have you done that or are you doing
that?
>> Sight lighting. Yes, there's side
lighting outside and it's turned on
correct
>> and is sufficient light in the evening
for security purposes. Yes.
>> For whatever equipment may be stored
there or vehicles.
>> Yeah.
>> Um
>> for um
>> your hours of operation will be daytime
hours. Vehicles picked up in the
morning, dropped off in the evening.
There won't be any won't be a situation
where there are three shifts running 24
hours and stuff's getting dropped off
all night throughout the evening.
>> To for to best of my knowledge, it's
daytime daytime operation. Yeah. You
never have you never have a drop off or
anything two o'clock in the morning if
they're starting a job somewhere.
>> So
>> they they haven't been there. I'm not
I'm not aware though.
>> They said they don't have to be in
additional testimony.
>> Sworn in. Sir,
>> what what what they told you that what
they told you is that it's pick up in
the morning in the evening. Correct.
Nobody's explained anything to you with
respect to and if so we would come back
at site plan time and let you know that
but right now what these guys have been
told without having that gentle for in
is it's drop off pick up in the morning
drop off in the evening not not a two or
three shift a day situation we're going
to have middle of the night drop offs or
pickups
>> to the best of our knowledge it's it's
morning and drop off drop off the
evening but if that does change like
Chris said we'll put that in with the
application
>> and that we'd have to come back and have
that the variance that we're here
tonight for to be modified
>> and present and present those proofs at
that time to accommodate that.
>> Right?
>> You understand? And you'll have you'll
tell you'll tell the entity that between
now and then that can't happen.
>> Right?
>> Between now and when we come back for
site plan, that can't happen. If they
have any intention of doing that, we got
to deal with that and we come back for a
site plan.
>> Right.
>> What are your what are your uh
intentions with respect to the site in
the short term like right now? I
understand there's some maintenance that
needs to be done with the snow area in
the back and some asphalt in the front.
>> Yeah. So, um, with respect to the the
site itself, the building itself, we we
have uh permits in with the the city for
the repairs that were done on that. So,
we have to do the the property was
completely dilapidated, falling apart.
So, we had to do extensive um repairs on
that and a lot of a lot of money is
dumped into it
>> on the building
itself. Um, and then
with regard to the the front, the
asphalt, you know, all ripped up. It was
just potholes, craters. It was just
derelict for multiple years. And same
with the back.
>> You've redone that or haven't redone?
>> We we are we're in the process currently
of of having that redone because it was
it was in such disrepair.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, and there's a concern with the
stones in the back and the weeds that
proliferate through those stones.
>> They're they're going to be kept weed
free as best as possible.
>> Yes. So it was I mean it was 30 foot
high when we first got the property. It
was extremely just not not looked after.
Um we we dealt with a lot of a lot of
stuff even DP stuff all the rest. Um but
yeah so it's it's been cleared and it's
been regraveled in the back the back
area and it's that's currently in the
process also
>> and that'll be cleaning that up.
>> It'll be maintained that that way
>> and it'll be maintained that way.
>> And and the environmental situation uh
tell us what happened there. So there
was pre from the previous operation
there was um mechanic uh there was a
mechanic and a used car dealership to
the best of my knowledge from from
before. Uh I guess they were just
disposing of
>> tell these guys.
>> Yeah sorry
there was they were disposing of uh of
oil drums of oil and not disposing of it
correctly. Uh they were just leaving it
kind of in barrels and all the rest. So
we had a full D report on the on the on
the property. Um we worked hand in hand
with um uh an LSRP um safe.
>> Yeah. And um yeah um they're
environmentally certified. They're the
only ones that can handle stuff stuff
like that. So yeah, we were we were
dealing hand in hand with them.
>> The LSRP is has given you what's
equivalent certificate
>> D
>> of the clearance of the property. The
property is now cleared of any
contamination. So, previously it was
kind of contaminated to tear that up,
but that is that is how it is.
>> That's great. That's all I have. Mr.
Chair,
>> I got a question for you.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, you're saying there's no employees
that'll be there at the
>> Yeah. So, it's not it's not it's not an
office. It's more of a drop off
location. So, they'll they'll drive pick
up the the, you know, truck.
>> That's that's what I'm getting at. Where
do they park when they when they drop
off their vehicle to get into the truck?
They'll um they'll probably park in the
front, I would imagine, or just swap out
for whatever they're taking.
>> Typically, where they swap out the
space, they pull out far away and they
pull the car in and then at night it
gets reversed.
>> So, they'll be parking back here also.
>> And how many trucks oversized imagery?
>> This is over oversized in terms of it's
it's probably like a hundred probably
like a 100 back there. Mark, let's let's
clarify.
>> You'll you'll make you'll have them swap
out the space rather than park in the
front or on the highway. You'll have
them put their car in the space where
they take the truck from.
>> Yes. Yeah.
>> And how many trucks did you say that'll
fit?
>> Total of eight.
>> What kind of trucks are they?
>> They're going to be a variety of trucks,
but some of them have the the big, you
know, zebra stripe thing in the back.
>> Attenu. Thank you. Those things. That's
basically the kind of truck
>> that the arrows on the back ones are
directly. Yeah, that side.
>> All right. So, you're just swapping out
that correct?
>> I notic in the front you you have
parking on the corner there. Is that
going to be asphalted
>> for here?
>> On the corner of Hamburg
>> on this side.
>> Yeah, it looks like that's going to be
all
>> that's that's existing. Um we have we
haven't asphalted that.
>> So,
>> the the front of the garage was in the
the most disrepair,
>> right? So they won't be permitted to
park vehicles there uh throughout the
day.
>> That's part of the that's part of the
the um massage par next door. That's
>> Well, that's the park massage. Okay.
>> Yeah. Over to
this side is basically air space.
>> Were you were you looking to do any
upgrades to the building for the massage
par? I drove past it today and it's
looking a little rough. Looks like the
shutters are down and needs painting.
>> Yeah, we we will eventually. the the
focus was kind of getting this under
control because it was in that that bad
a disrepair. But eventually it is it is
on demand.
>> And that's your that's your building.
That's your tenant as well.
>> That is Yeah.
>> So if the city needs to deal with that
building, they come to you.
>> Yes. Yeah.
>> So you're not using any of the massage
parlor parking for your business?
>> No.
I have one other question in regards to
the fence. Is the are you going to
install new fence around that facility
downside? That old fence is all grown in
all those trees and then fence off the
front where the trucks are going to be
going in.
>> So So the fence on the front it was
taken down temporarily because they were
they were redoing the the gravel and the
asphalt. There was a fence that was was
dilapidated. We we have to to re to put
that in again.
>> Put a new fence in there. new a new
fence in the same the same line it was
existing on it it would go back in but
it it was basically falling back because
it was rotted and it it was it was a
nice
>> right and now your side fence that's
parallel with Hamburg is that going to
be replaced
>> that will that'll be replaced
>> because that's pretty bad shape it's all
in trees and whatever for security
purposes for the trucks or whatever
>> will that be done by the time we come
back for site plan
>> it will yeah
>> Mr.
Jack, you done something?
>> Yeah. So, it it's a little unusual
and I don't know if it it's protocol or
if it's allowed or whatever, but to to
have a var to be asking for a variance
before the site plan.
>> Uh, you know, we're we're raising
questions now about parking and how many
trucks and all that, which are details
that would be called out on a site plan.
and you're testifying that you're going
to come back for a site plan, but how do
we hold you to that? Uh, and if if you
do come back for a site plan, and for
some reason you need a Pineland
certificate of filing,
I I I don't know how you would proceed
with with a site plan. I we're we're out
of we're out of sequence here. I I I I
could I could suggest with respect and
only if you're done I don't mean to
interrupt you.
>> Yes.
>> Um this it's a change of view for the
pine lands and I I don't believe a new
application is necessary. Andy was going
to confirm that.
>> So
>> and and you're right with respect to the
order of things. This is not this is not
typical. We're we're asking for and
we're asking for relief that we wouldn't
come in here and ask for ordinarily. But
I would suggest you if there's anything
that you want to see done whether the
site plan or not the use variance the
conditions imposed on use variance can
be more stringent in fact than a site
plan. So if there's something you want
to see that that is done or isn't done
between now and then
we're bound by it with respect to the
grant to the grant of use.
>> Okay. But you know you're this is what
was submitted to us. it it's a you know
a survey. I don't know when it was done
but it's probably pretty accurate. But
you know you've got trucks drawn in
there. We we usually have you know a
site plan that spells out all the things
and that that that are supposed to be in
there and then
add whatever conditions the board may or
may not have at the time. Uh can we can
we impose conditions on a on a variance?
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. and whatever we
said tonight in terms of the eight
trucks, the the day daytime only um drop
off and pick up, those all are part of
the record and our conditions of of this
approval. Whatever we said tonight um
we're stuck with.
>> So if your site plan doesn't pass, you
shut it down. Is that
>> site plan doesn't pass, we can't stay
there.
So, what we're going to suggest,
>> Ryan, you got some.
>> What we're going to suggest after
conferring with Ryan earlier today is
that we ask for um a deferment on site
plan for 6 months. We come back within 6
months for a site plan that may or may
not show any enlargement of existing
development that's already there. So, we
want to take the high road. We want to
come back. The site plan may be for
little things like lighting and
landscaping as opposed to how much
impervious coverage we're asking for and
whether or not we have to go back for a
new certificate of silent confinement
because it looks like the areas they've
already um re rejuvenated with new
gravel was already gravel to begin with.
That's going to be strictly based on
their testimony at this point in time
because it's not covered up with new
gravel.
So, we want to reook at that area as
part of the site plan when we come back,
assuming that's the direction the board
wants to go in terms of some deferment
of 6 months to coming back for a site
plan.
>> We wouldn't be so bold as to come in and
say, can we put a Wawa in there for six
months and we'll go back for a site plan
for that. I mean, this this site tends
to lend itself to what to what they're
doing. It's a fairly innocuous nonactive
use and we thought because the way it's
set up that would not be
disen request that could at least be
thought about and considered.
>> Right.
>> So there's going to be a second bite at
the apple. In other words, what we're
proposing for a site plan approval or
site plan application within 6 months of
this
>> and no equipment is to be seen from the
outside that will be
>> we are purposely parking the equipment
in the back behind the building as
opposed to out front where it's already
paved just to try and be a little
>> I'm not talking about the trucks. I'm
talking about the safety equipment
>> that goes in the building
. Any
registered vehicles would be parked
outside and equipment materials would be
>> right behind the building and any
smaller materials that are not
particular in nature will be stored
inside the building.
>> Keep in mind it's a a garage old
mechanics garage. So they have there's
three three uh garage doors,
right? Most probably stays on the truck.
>> Yeah. So you have the con signs and
whatever else in the building.
>> Well, you see from the outside I'm sure.
>> Mhm.
So, I just want to circle back on the
process. I know this feels a little bit
out of order. It's not unprecedented,
but it's uncommon for a site that's
already developed. Normally, um, we'll
see a use variance before a site plan if
there's an undeveloped site and it's a
significant investment to, um, you know,
to design the site. If it's 30 or
$40,000 to to design a site, someone
will come in for a use variance first to
make sure like, am I going to be allowed
to do this here? And then they'll come
back with a site plan once they have the
use variance in place. So the process
isn't unprecedented. It's just unusual
to see it in these this circumstance
where we already have a site. Um so
that's that's why we're proceeding this
way. It's not that it's out of order.
It's just uncommon for you know this
this type of situation where it's fully
developed.
>> Right. But but normally when someone
comes in or they're submitting an
application to give a site plan approval
>> and then we can make make decisions or
but it sounds like you've already got
this tenant lined up and he's moving in
tomorrow. I mean it sounds like
>> we're wait we're waiting for approval. I
mean the the other option is if we don't
get approval it's we have to go we go
back to you know an approved use that's
there currently. So be it a mechanic's
yard again or
>> say that's my church what you said.
>> No I mean I would I live in a car. We
all live in a car. We've seen that
building and you did a great job
rehabing it. It it really is nice. It's
nice when you're coming down the pike.
My concern, okay, is that it, you know,
I guess you just purchased this property
in December of 2024.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, when you bought it, you knew
the use. It's hybrid commercial use. So,
I'm assuming
>> there was two if I wasn't mistaken.
>> Well, the zone is hybrid commercial. I I
don't know what uses you've had. You got
the massage over there, but now it says
spa on the window. This isn't massage
anymore. It's just a little bit nicer.
But um but anyway,
>> yeah, but I mean when you purchased it,
you knew it was highway commercial zone.
>> You knew that. I'm sure you did some
research of what was permitted uses and
not permitted, but yet today we're like
seemed like we're being rushed. I mean,
this meeting was supposed to be last
week, but postponed it. You got the
tenants out there. I was there this
morning. You had bulldozers over there,
stones and asphalt. I mean, you're just
you're gunging hole like I I swear these
people are going to move in tomorrow.
This is it's definitely this is tenant
tenant driven. I mean the tenant
>> tenant tenant came along and they they
could they like to get they Yes. They
wanted
>> Yeah.
>> stage here and get
>> sure and and I I understand that. Uh but
but it but it is a hybrid commercial
use. Um again we're coming down the
spike into a corporate city. Um I'm just
looking to visual you know. So the first
thing we're going to see on the right is
a massage. We got an adult adult
bookstore on the left. Now we're going
to have this building which shows
beautiful is going to be commercial
vehicles stored in there. It's going to
have storage in there. I mean we go
through a little bit left. We have the
old acne that's sitting there. Um it
would be nice to to use that building
for what it was intended. One of the
uses for hybrid commercial. It would be
attractive when you come in. Um I know
this this type of a use is permitted
probably in the industrial zone,
industrial park. I'm assuming that's
where it belongs. I I don't know if it's
it's great to have it right there on the
Lakers Pike soon as we pull into town. I
mean, I'm looking at it from the
Galloway entrance. Again, we have
another big facility. It's sitting on
the left. It isn't that attractive. So,
so I guess my questions are, it sounds
like we're just we've been forced to to
to jump into this do a site plan
approval later on so we can sign these
tenants up. But but if if you don't get
the approval tonight, um I mean the only
hardship is you lost those tenants.
Maybe the next tenants will use it for a
permitted use will be a little bit more
attractive for the city. Those are just
some of my thoughts,
>> right?
>> Fair I mean fair comment. It's that I
mean I know the site has been subject to
several redevelopment proposals with
with other uses that for whatever reason
hasn't panned out,
>> right? Um, so it, yes, it sits there as
it did and it's been now it's been
approved and there's a tenant that wants
to go in and use it, makeover city, it's
business, you know, Riley is a huge
national operation. Um, it's not a bad
company to have in town, a good company
to have in town. Um, that and that site
just happens to lend itself to what they
need to do. I I noticed that it has been
up for rent. I mean, since you owned it,
I mean, you could have advertised for
looking for hybrid commercial use
through the realtor or the sign, but it
was never even looking
>> this tenant came along and it was
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> We had it. It's very hard to Yeah, it
was it was difficult finding a tenant.
>> True.
>> Um, and again, it's it's a nationally
named tenant that wants to wants to take
>> I ideally Yes. Would some would it be a
small strip center and beautifully
designed strip center?
>> Sure.
>> It could be. How many of the right now
with the way commercial development is
going offshore?
>> It's not working.
>> No.
>> And fortunately there's a tenant that
wants to be here and wants to use that
site. It's getting fixed up and is it
perfect? Not perfect,
>> but do we think we can justify the
variance? We I
>> that's up to you guys. If I didn't place
it in testimony earlier, it is a
mutually beneficial
lease that's coming in. It cleans up a
property that is in desperate need of
cleaning up with something that's not
going to create a nuisance in terms of
its use, but only beautify the corridor
in and out of a city. So it's an
opportunity that is good for him and
it's good I believe for the city too.
>> I don't want to spend anybody's money
but one of the things you can do with
site plan is impose some conditions for
instance in landscaping outside the
fencing things of that nature.
>> Sure. And then normally that's done
prior to to the approvals and it's prior
to the tenant moving in.
>> No question about it.
>> So once they're in there it's like we
have no control. Um
>> you have complete control.
>> You have to do it. You will. You're
right.
>> We're still subject to site plan which
will have impositions or conditions that
you impose upon the applicant to do
maybe some landscaping, maybe some
lighting, some things that haven't been
thought of to date and especially after
this tenant has been in here for a few
months. I think
>> but once they're we'll be able to
recognize what is really needed as
opposed to what we project as needed.
>> I I I I think you're saying we'll wait
and see. But it'd be a different story
if the owner was owner occupied. He was
applying for variance because we could
talk to him, but this is a third party.
This is a tenant. They're dropping off.
We don't have a clue what's going you
want from from when you're home. So,
it's up to the city to maintain the
property to to make sure it's being
handled properly. They're not parking
things out front. Doors aren't left
there. You know, it's
>> I'm not I'm not I'm not convinced of
that. I I I think a a conscientious
owner wants to make sure his property
looks the way he represented you guys
that it's supposed to.
>> Um and take that burden shouldn't be on
Harbor City on him.
>> But, but tenants don't maintain a
property like a homeowner would.
>> Yeah.
>> But he's still on the hook. But he he
does he does a lead next door in the
house anymore like probably the original
owner when it was first approved.
>> Right. But again, it's like I said, it's
a a national, you know, company. It's
not it's not like it's a mechanic that
was there before where they're just
throwing oil out in the middle of,
>> you know, letting the place overgrow.
It's like
>> we don't we don't think of it as a point
with what site operates and especially
imposing whatever conditions you do a
site plan. We have tonight's
representations and whatever you impose
the site plan is we're valid by
that. Thank you. Your insight is
correct.
>> Mr. Chairman
>> Jack I I don't have so much a problem
with you know the proposed use because
it's not a stretch from what was
previously there with automobiles parked
in trucks and you know a repair shop. I
I I don't I don't see that as being a
problem with the use. I'm having a
problem with not seeing a site plan
because I have I have questions. Site
lighting, uh, trash enclosure, one of my
favorite subjects, you know, fencing,
landscaping, you know, you're here on a
promise and with all due respect, you'll
honor your obligations, but once you do
that with, we have no teeth to enforce
that. Okay. Uh I I just I don't know why
this is raising the hair on the back of
my neck, but given the variance without
a site plan to review, I just I'm not
feeling it. Guys, my concern my concern
is this. There's there's six members
here tonight and I'm getting sense from
two that that might not be a vote in the
affirmative and and it's five votes that
are necessary. Okay. If we can't come if
if tonight the application fails because
it's four to two um we can't ask for
that variance again
>> right in six months.
>> Chris you know that uh you are entitled
to seven voting members. Uh I would have
already advised the board that in case
uh in the situation that you did not
receive five affirmative votes that the
absent board member and absent board
member would be allowed to review the
record uh the video as well as the uh
the tape recording and then provide a
vote. I appreciate that.
>> Uh that doesn't guarantee you get the
fifth vote, but it entitles you to the
seven votes uh seven uh members voting
and participating that you're entitled
to. So Mr. B explain the the uh the
variance thing
>> one variance you get one bite in an
apple this is a use variance or a
devariance which requires five
affirmative votes ordinarily it's a
majority of the quarant there's five
people here you need three seven people
you need four with this kind of variance
I need five if if Mr. Frick and you
decide I want to see a site plan before
I before I allow this. I get then I have
four votes and and it fails. I can't
bring that back. He it's it's uh race
should I am I am not allowed to bring
back the same application twice
>> ever
>> 10 years.
>> This is like land use.
>> Look, I'm not saying I'm not saying
that's a strong army you guys. I just
want to understand that's all that's the
law.
>> And I'm not saying to strongarm you
guys. I would I had no intention of even
having going into that explanation
because I sit here in count six. I'm
like, "Oh,
there'll be a problem." Um
>> so one of the things that I did want to
address that uh that some of the board
members have indicated uh concern with
is with respect to um having no teeth or
requiring them to uh to do things but
losing control once they receive their
variance. So, one of the conditions that
you could put in the or I could put in
the resolution for you is the specific
condition that they return to this board
within 6 months.
>> You guys could say four. You guys could
say four months
>> or whatever to provide for site plan
approval uh and have that testimony and
work with the prof board's professionals
to ensure that you get what you want.
>> I have a question on that. If they
don't, what happens?
>> Uh they fail. the so they haven't met
the the conditions of the resolution so
it gets shut down.
>> You shut it down. I mean look six months
is six months is
>> how does that get shut down? you have a
lease
>> because I understand what you're saying
like what's the process of the city to
say okay you you didn't come back like
are we just send sending somebody to
knock
>> our land use administrator and code
enforcement officer would serve them uh
with notice that they have failed in
their conditions on use variance and the
use variance no longer exists
>> certain amount of days to get out of the
building
>> yes it's not like residential landlord
tenant protections you don't have I
don't have commercial property
>> no I I Okay.
>> All right. So, let's uh let's get back
to what we were doing. Ryan, do you have
a report for us? Do you want to
>> Yeah.
>> go over your report before we do the
report.
>> We get into all this other
>> other stuff here. Sure. So, I'll start
on uh our second page. I think everyone
has a pretty good idea of what um is
there, what's being proposed. Um again,
what they're seeking is um excuse me,
use variance relief. Um and they the
cyclone waiver we've already discussed.
So they've they eliminated that request.
Um use variance again would be for a use
that's not permitted in the zone and um
two uses on the single site. U there've
been two uses on the same site
traditionally, but now that one of them
is uh not an allowable use or not a um a
permitted use. You know, I just wanted
to be safe and cover that because it's
kind of an expansion of non-informing
use. So um so I think they covered uh
Mr. Shaker covered the positive
criteria. to discuss the negative
criteria. Um that section of our letter
just enumerates all of the possibilities
for positive criteria and then describes
what the negative criteria is and means.
Um
we in our in my general comments we had
notes about um multi-uses on the site.
Um parking and circulation um we didn't
really have anything in the application.
I think they've explained how parking
and circulation would work. Um,
obviously I think the primary question
for everyone and I think what everyone
thought coming in was that the parking
would be in that front lot next to the
use and it sounds like that's not
proposed to be the case. Um, so we got
some clarification that the parking
would actually be behind the building.
Um, screening and buffering. Um, we
talked about the potential to add that
during the site plan. Um, it doesn't
sound like there's any screening or
buffering proposed at the moment.
Correct.
>> At the moment.
>> Okay. Um, operations. So, we did talk
briefly about hours of operation. If the
board is considering approval, I would
suggest that we put a limitation on
hours of operation now and that can be
revisited during the site plan. Um, if
that's something that the board is open
to um lighting and security, we did talk
about that. It sounds like they're going
to replace an existing site fence um and
they feel they have sufficient lighting,
but obviously um site planning would
revisit exactly what the appropriate
lighting models are from the site and
what's required. Um outdoor storage, we
did talk about Um, as a condition of
this, there would be no outdoor storage
of any materials permitted, only
registered vehicles. Um, sounds like
there would be crash attenuating trucks
and things of that nature, but um, no,
you know, outdoor storage of materials,
which we've had a very strict limitation
on, uh, in especially in highway
commercials.
Um, they did address the environmental
cleanup on the site. Um, I think there's
still some issues to get sorted out with
DP, but that that shouldn't really
impact the board uh, going forward. And
then we discussed
applicability of the pondland. Um so the
change use exemption when you're
changing from one non-residential use to
another as long as that's the only um
issue being discussed. There's no
proposed site uh revisions which there
are none at the moment. Um then you're
you're qualify under that exemption. So
I think they'll probably have to revisit
that. if we're going to propose things
on the site plan, we'll probably need a
certificate of filing. Um, but they
could address that, you know, in advance
of the meeting and submit. Um, so we may
want to impose uh if we're if we're
considering a time frame, four months, 6
months, whatever it is that we're
considering, um, we may want to require
that they submit a certificate of filing
in advance of that because that's going
to take some time to to get back before
they can appear at the board. So, if
they don't submit a certificate of
filing till the six month mark, we're
not going to see them at six months.
it's just going to be impossible because
the board doesn't have jurisdiction if
this project requires a certificate of
filing um until it's issued. So we we
can't even hear them until they have a
certificate of filing if that's what's
required.
So I would suggest that we
>> Well, shouldn't they need that right now
before they come before us?
>> So right so right now there are no
changes proposed to the site. So, it's a
conversion of one non-residential use to
another non-residential use. That is
specifically listed as an exemption in
the Piland CMP. So, if you're just
switching from one non-residential use
to another, whether it requires a use
variance or not, you do not need a
certificate of filing because there's no
change to the site and it's not a
residential use.
>> So, if the Pineland gives them a
problem, this all gets pushed back
again.
>> Well, that's that's why I suggest
>> Meanwhile, they're running their
business. That's why I suggested we
should set a deadline for the submission
um to the commission to get a
certificate of filing so that you know
if Pinelands is going to hold things up
for a month or two that's not starting
at the six month mark right
>> what do you think a reasonable time
period within 20 days within 10 days
>> uh well no because to submit the
certificate of filing you guys are going
to have to do the survey and do the
design and and um so I mean if we're if
we're wanting them back in six months I
mean three maybe
>> yeah I have a vacation coming
So, four.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, so I mean it they they essentially
need to submit if they're going to come
to the board with a site plan that that
proposes changes, new asphalt,
landscaping, um, you know, things like
that, that requires the the issuance of
a certificate filing by the commission.
So that's I just wanted to keep that in
mind where um you know if we want to see
them back in six months we're going to
want them to submit for this file.
>> We can submit that within 90 days.
>> Yeah.
>> Within 30 months 90 days. Yeah.
>> Okay. So that that would give some time.
Um pelines reviews 30 days 45 is more
like it at the moment if you're lucky.
Um, so if they submitted and uh had an
issue, they should be able to turn
around and and still be able to get here
in 6 months and not, you know, us be
waiting for that certificate of filing
process to play.
>> Is there anything we can put on this
with this six month
>> guesstimate that if they don't show up,
all bets are off that this just doesn't
start?
>> Yeah. Shitty,
>> you know.
>> Yeah.
>> So they don't have what they need in six
months, they get out. Everything goes
back to what it was.
>> Yes.
>> And the And the variance is lifted.
>> The variance is lifted.
>> Okay. Ryan,
>> I have a Sorry. Go ahead.
>> Uh, so once we grant a variance on this
property, that's forever until somebody,
you know, wants to
>> have another variance.
>> The variance is subject to conditions.
So if the variance had a specific
condition that had a time frame on it
and they don't meet that condition, then
the variance is no longer valid. The
variance is specific to this very
specific use.
>> Yes. Right.
>> It's not it doesn't open it up for a
bunch of other storage type uses. It's
just exactly what we said tonight.
>> Right. So you can switch to a different
company or an incredibly similar use.
But um but but again if they don't come
back with a site plan, it wouldn't that
wouldn't carry with the land like it
would normally. If you if you approve a
use variance with no conditions um for
anyone to come back, then yeah, that
carries with the land and it'll be it
could be there for the next hundred
years. But
>> yeah, we can avoid it. Any resolution,
we can void it.
>> That that's what I'm saying. If if if
there's specific conditions imposed in
like in this situation, it would not it
would not continue on. It would cease to
exist because they did not meet the
conditions of the variance.
>> Okay. Another question then or
food for thought. Uh it I understand
that you know they have a tenant and
they want to move in and when when we
get applications like this when
everybody's in a hurry it it doesn't sit
well with the board as as you can tell.
Uh so is there a possibility and I don't
know this is you know a legal question.
Could the city not issue them a
temporary zoning permit to without a
variance to uh allow them to get their
tenant in there and get moving before we
grant any variances
give them a conditional permit for 6
months? I don't know if this if this is
possible or not. Uh and then at that
time, you know, when the when the permit
is timed out, they would have had to
been before the board with a site plan
and a and a variance request for
variance. So I don't believe that the
zoning officer, which coincidentally is
also me,
has the authority to unilaterally
approve an application that would
require a use.
>> Is that an administrative
motion? What's that
>> to do that administratively?
>> Well, right. So, I I I don't have the
unilateral authority to approve a use
that's not expressly permitted in the
zone
>> as a zoning. Right. So,
>> that's why we're here.
>> Right. Exactly. So, I I don't
to offer that that relief.
>> Well, Right. So essentially the board
would be providing that that temporary
relief to say if you don't come back
with a site plan that we can all agree
to conditions on because I think that
that's another part that we haven't
touched on yet is that if they if the
board if they come back to the board for
a site plan and there are conditions
that you want to impose that they will
not agree to then they've still not not
met the condition. So that would still
avoid the use variance. So if we come
back and we're, you know, and it's been
a mess over there and we're going to
impose all these conditions and they say
no, we say okay, we'll get out.
>> So you you do have
>> variance goes away.
>> Correct.
>> But but you still have a signed lease
with those tenants and that's
>> that's our problem.
>> That's not our problem.
>> Let me ask a question, Ryan. Do you
think like use varian grant on like
conditional basis? So when we come back
with the site plan, we also have to vote
on the use variance as a as final relief
just to
>> No, that gets very messy. Um I I would
prefer
>> out of the box a little bit.
>> Yeah. And this is my uh not my first
rodeo but my first rodeo with this board
uh and protecting them. I would suggest
that you vote on the use varants uh that
you put the conditions that we've
described within here because they will
it will protect you. They will have to
come back. It it is being granted on
very specific conditions that they come
back within a certain period of time. Uh
for them to come back within a certain
within a certain period of time, they
had to have satisfied other conditions
with other agencies. Uh so they have a
heavy lift here and your site plan
approval by the way uh that is lurking
out there isn't a rubber stamp uh as
you've heard Ryan say that when they
come back for site plan approval and
you've had a chance to evaluate uh the
operation uh you know in a lot of ways
this works out for the for the board and
the city because you can you know see
what you want at that site and impose
that as conditions. Uh the other part um
that I would urge the board to consider
is the fact that uh you know with
respect it didn't come in as clean as
probably you would normally get but
there has been some good faith here in
that they cleaned up an environmentally
toxic site uh that was within the city.
So that's already been done. uh they are
satisfying issues with D and I noted
that in my notes that in the positive
criteria that goes a long way uh
cleaning up a dirty site.
One other thing I'll say just having a
little lengthy history with the board. I
think a point a frequent frustration for
the board has been we look at a site
plan, we grant an approval and then a
tenant tends to go and do whatever they
want and we have to rely on code
enforcement to take care of everything
and that's a difficult job. This
circumstance, while a little unique and
unorthodox, um, and not necessarily
desirable, actually presents you a
second chance to meet with these same
people and talk about exactly how
they're operating the site and, you
know, sort of circle back and say like,
look, what you've been doing is not
working. We want to see this change. We
want you to do this. We want you to
screen that side. We want you to, you
know, whatever. Um, so while it's again
a little unorthodox and maybe not
something we're going to do for every
application, it does give you a second
chance to meet with these same people
and impose conditions on the site sort
of after it's up and running instead of
having to lean on code enforcement and
and deal with that frustration.
So
think about
>> any questions from the board.
>> Um, yeah, is six months enough time?
I mean, if they could submit the
certificate of filing in 90 days, I
think six months should be enough time
because um that process, even if you
submit and Pinelands has an issue with
it, they can issue a certificate of
filing that's incomplete, meaning it's
not consistent with their rules. So, as
long as you submit um like a technically
complete application, even if it doesn't
meet their rules, they still have to
give you a certificate of filing. And
even if it's incomplete, we can still
hear it.
>> Okay? So if if they can get a
certificate filing in within 90 days, we
should be able to get back to this board
within 6 months.
>> And the other thing that's op optimistic
about that is that the site changes that
I'm hearing that may be proposed
are more cosmetic in nature to, you
know, go along with the highway
commercial district. It's not, you know,
other than maybe paving if there's some
paving done. Uh that's a disturbance
that highlands is always interested in,
of course. Uh but uh you know most of
these things you know I'm cautiously
optimistic that they will qualify for uh
a change of use exemption
>> questions.
You good?
>> Good.
>> Remember I got to come back here and
face you guys. It's got to work
>> your reputation procedure.
>> I got to come back and face you.
>> All right. So, uh,
I guess we're going to need a motion.
And let let let's
Mr. Tiny, you're going to come up with a
motion. You're going to a word the
motion. I would I would suggest from me
that you strongly put a deadline on
this.
>> Okay.
>> And make sure that you guys are okay
with the deadline because once
>> once this happens to the public,
>> once this happens, the deadline is the
deadline. So, prior to doing that
though, we have uh we have to open it up
to the public for comment. Yep.
>> But I will start working on that.
>> Yep. Anybody here from the public would
like to voice their opinion, sir?
>> Come up and get sworn in.
>> James M.
>> Okay. How do you spell your last name,
sir? C A L L I N
>> I
Okay. Men,
uh, do you solemnly swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth? Not to let the
truth out.
>> I do.
>> Okay.
>> Couple questions I have. Obviously, I
own all the ground around this site. 8
acres. I bought the shift propert.
and I own the acme across the street
which we're going through the process
now
of doing everything that I guess they
should have done right to get approvals
and whatnot. So I have a question my my
biggest I just found out about this 5
days ago because I got a certified
letter two certified letters one from
from 111 New York Avenue from 3034. So
that's the that's the address I have is
3034 White Pipe. So you know we were
wanting to do something big and grand
and I'm talking to Lisa about it and
whatnot. So, I don't know what this does
to our site, you know, I'm in the
construction industry. I was in the
highway construction. Another thing is
most of that work's done at night.
Okay. So, I don't know. I mean, I don't
know where they pay for during the day.
I mean, most of it's done at night. So,
I don't know what it's going to do or
affect us and my site. But listen, I
owned it before I owned the big site.
Um,
I'm I was kind of concerned when I
started hearing about the uh
contamination on the site and where it
is and if they have a clean letter from
the state and no further action suit and
how far did it leech like it might have
leeched onto my property. So, we don't
know that. So, I want to know I want to
see that. I I should have a right for
that. Um,
And I guess uh
I know it's a gateway coming in and I
don't know if it's the right use or not.
I listen I mean there's plenty other
places you can put that but
so so okay. So if this is allowed and
you guys move this in so what does that
do to my property? Are we like able to
bring a big contractor in like old
construction or or something like that
for with their paving equipment and all?
because I've had plenty of calls for
that and I was told that it's not
permitted. So now if it is permitted,
that's the route we're going to need to
go. You understand? So that's that's
that's all I have to say.
>> When did you purchase your property,
sir?
>> I purchased it about a year ago.
>> And the Acme site
>> about four or five years ago.
>> Yeah.
>> And what?
>> Well, we have a tenant. We have a tenant
lined up. He's he's um he's doing what
he Ryan knows. He's been doing what he
has to do. We've had plenty of meetings.
We sat before. I don't know about you
guys, but we've had many,
>> you know.
>> Yeah, they're
>> they're going through their pine land
stuff. I mean, we're going through the
pine land stuff now, even though
>> they they're amending the redevelopment
plan that applies to the Acme property
um for cannabis cultivation. So that's
not a permitted use of the zone either.
Um they decided to go the route of
amending the redevelopment plan which
requires action by the city referral to
the land use board back to the city. Um
and then they come to work site.
>> And you have right now you have someone
in that site right now working or
>> are they working on the building?
>> No, it's their hand on it. It's out of
my hands. Like it would be like if there
Riley was here tonight, which I thought
should have been here and would have
been here because he would tell you how
he runs his business. So
Ryan knows, the mayor knows, I guess.
I'm sorry. You're the solicitor, right?
>> I am.
>> Have you do you know? Uh
>> I'm just a land use, not the municipal
solicitor.
>> I have the door in the city. That's
>> Yeah. So Ryan knows he's going It's I'm
the owner of the property, but they're
dealing with the city to get,
>> right? The ten the tenant is taking care
of that process.
>> The tenants is taking care of the
process.
>> But all I'm saying is and and they're
going to beautify that the Acme site. We
had a meeting last week about that. They
want shrub, they want this, they want
that. And that's fine. And my tenant
said he would do all that
>> in the meantime. That place is a mess.
>> Yeah. Well, I Yeah, it is. It's out of
my hands now. He bought it from me. He's
buying it from me. He's buying the
property from you. You currently own it
right now.
>> I currently do
>> because it is a mess.
>> I know. We've had that conversation.
He's gonna start hopefully whatever.
>> Do you also own the house next to it?
>> No.
>> Nope.
>> No, I don't.
>> I don't own the house next to it.
>> It's been Okay.
>> Well, it is a mess.
>> Yeah. So, we've had
>> You might consider buying a dumpster.
It's about Well, I'm going to tell you
this, too. We just got noticed that
somebody felt something behind the
building and the zoning official told
me, "Don't worry about it because he's
been arrested."
>> Whatot. So, I can't control.
>> I went by there about a month ago and
the trash bags and the trash is flowing
out into the street in the back.
>> It happened across the street, too. They
dump they dumped trash loads of tires at
night.
>> It's awful.
>> I know. I mean, it all has to be cleaned
up. I understand. So,
>> you're the owner, sir.
>> Yeah. And I have a tenant there and he's
he's signed.
>> Take control.
>> I'm not here for that. That's You want
to have that meeting?
>> I'm I'm not I wasn't here for that
either. But when you come up to the
podium
>> and you start asking the board questions
about
>> I want the I want the report. All I want
is the report.
>> You're certainly entitled to whatever
you're
>> talking about site across the street.
I'm not worried about the Acme site. I'm
not worried about that. You're talking
about the adjacent site to the
applicants. That's what I'm concerned.
Mr. You want this report that we talked
about? Yes.
>> So, what you do is you pick up the phone
and call the owner.
>> That's how that's how that works.
>> I didn't know there was contamination
issues.
>> You were more than welcome.
>> That's fine.
>> There's a more serious environmental in
that area than the slop oil across the
street. Mhm.
>> Yes.
>> You you have a gas station that was
located on White
>> and I got the report in the ship
brothers on the 8 acre site also
>> them parking eight vehicles behind a
building that the building is going to
shield. I don't honestly see how it's
going to deterior deteriorate.
>> That's fine. I just don't know what it's
going to do to that zoning. what we
should do. I mean, if it's if that's
allowed, if this is allowed that use,
>> I don't care.
>> We take each thing on case by case. You
can you're welcome to come in and make
application or variance for anything
that you want. And we, you know, we
consider that
it's there there's no hard fast rule. I
mean, the zoning can be changed by
variance. The site plan can be approved
with conditions and all that. So, you
know, we entertain any and all options.
Mhm.
>> Uh we're trying to get buildings
occupied and and and
>> I understand
>> and and do it the right way.
>> Yeah. And I understand your thing about
my property. We had a meeting about
that. What you just said
>> we had a conference call about what what
you just said. We had a conference call
last week and we're taking care of that.
So I mean it's not being ignored. I know
Steve will call me if the grass gets too
high. What? So
>> Steve's not here anymore.
>> Oh, he's not
in a couple weeks.
>> Yeah. He he he has this um blame, he he
calls me.
>> Well, this property has been a mess for
a long time.
>> Well, it's going to get cleaned up.
>> A mess. It's been a mess since the Acme
closed.
>> It's going to get cleaned up.
>> It's been going downhill. I've been here
my whole life.
>> Every time I go by there, I look at it.
>> Yeah. Um so,
>> all right. Yeah. No, I got you. I got
you.
>> I just want I like I said, I got this
notice, two notices for both of my ads.
So I just we're concerned about across
the street because that one we want to
do something,
you know, it's a big site. We want to do
some something maybe some kind of house.
I don't know. We don't know yet.
>> Figure it out. You know,
>> I don't know. We've had a lot of people
come in and a lot of people go back and
forth and then it goes to the next guy
and the next guy and the next guy
>> and the acne always looks the same.
>> Mhm. So,
and I know you said I didn't come up
here for this, but when you do come up
here for this and you open yourself up,
then you open yourself up to
>> But in all fairness, what you're talking
about was already discussed and taken
care of.
>> I have no idea.
>> Were you at the meeting for that
>> when that came up?
>> Were you at the um I'm sorry,
>> Donna?
Excuse
me.
>> Not yet. We're not there yet. We're
still talking to him.
>> So, um, last week
we had a conference call about the
and they told me that somebody had
dumped trash behind the building just
like across the street and they caught
them and they were arrested and they're
on the hook to clean it up.
>> Am I right?
Yeah, I know that there was
>> All right. So, yeah, we've already I
already been aware of that. Very good.
I'm sorry. I I live up north. I haven't
>> and All right.
>> Okay. Very good. Thank you.
>> Is there any other member of the public?
>> Kim,
New Orleans Avenue. I just wanted to say
>> I'm sorry. How's the last name?
>> H E S E.
Okay.
And that address again, New Orleans,
>> 236 New Orleans Avenue.
>> Okay. And could you raise your right
hand, please? So swear your testimony
you're about to provide will be a truth,
all truth, and nothing but truth to God.
>> I do.
>> Okay.
>> I just want to say thank you to the
committee up here. And I also wanted to
say, Mr. Frick, I agree with you. you
know, we're trying to clean up city and
especially the white horse pipe at
Philadelphia Avenue and um if we could
get something, you know, um
different in there and move those type
of businesses to the industrial part
that would be great. However, I do if if
we can to me I feel taking every step to
make sure that the property is in good
good condition
that it is landscape that it is the
trash is removed that we do everything
that supposed to do when you when you
come in here and you say that you're
going to do it. I think it's because too
many times
it doesn't happen. You say one thing and
and something else happens. So I really
really hope that you can do the right
thing because we do have new new um code
enforcement.
So we will be moving forward with with
our ordinances now. So I just want to
say thank you very much. And um the
other thing is I didn't hear anything
mentioned other than Mr. Peterson about
the the trash containers on the property
and I guess that
>> it' be behind the Yeah. No, it's behind
the the fence. So they're not not going
to be on the street. It's not directly
on the street.
>> Could you point it out?
>> Yes.
>> Is this a temporary spot?
>> There's current there's currently
nothing on site, but they will be behind
here. So it'll be behind fencing. So,
>> yeah, there'll be an enclosure. So, back
it's not going to be
>> that would be something that would be
done in the in the uh plan
>> for something permanent.
>> Pardon me there. There's no there's no
such plan. We'll take care of that
because I know there's a particular way
the trash work.
They they don't they haven't been we
will have to please specify.
>> Well, they didn't cut.
>> Yeah, they're cut. Yes, exactly.
>> Thank you very much everyone.
>> Thank you and apologies.
>> Anyone else like to be heard?
>> All right, we're going to close the
public comment on this and uh
we got to come up with a motion. Okay.
So the uh based on the testimony
provided on the application for
the subject site
which is 6 white horse pike block known
as block 526 lot 11.01
located in the highway commercial zone.
Uh the applicant being Lub DMB White
Pike LLC.
Uh the motion would be to approve
uh a D1 use variance as well as a D2
uh variance for the expansion of a
non-conform pre-existing non-conforming
use uh based upon
the following conditions that the
applicant must return to this court
within 6 months uh seeking site plan
approval
uh or or else their use variance shall
be voided. Uh if they don't return and
if they return and site plan is not
approved the use variance uh if granted
use variances if granted shall be
voided. Uh also it's based on the
condition that the hours of operation
uh for the
business that is situated on the
property will be from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m. If that's reasonable,
>> that's his testimony.
>> I would uh I'd be careful on that. whole
company isn't going to work at 8:00 a.m.
I would say if you give them 6 a.m. to 6
p.m.
>> 6 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.
>> 6 to 8
>> 6 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.
>> But with eight trucks they're not doing
the expressway with that that's coming
out of a different yard. They're going
to do small
stuff like that. Okay.
um hours of operation uh 6 a.m. until
8:00 pm
that only uh registered vehicles will be
parked in the rear of the building. uh
that all industrial tools and
accessories shall be stored in the
garage and that uh employee vehicles uh
will replace uh the eight company trucks
that are uh parked there overnight.
Um Ryan, any other conditions?
>> Think so at the moment?
>> Okay. Uh but the the key uh the key
conditions here are that the applicant
uh reappears before and obtains site
plan approval within 6 months where the
use variance is voided
>> and you guys are okay with six months
right not seven six you're okay with it
>> certificate 90 days
>> he's giving you an opportunity here
>> six is it
required
>> okay
>> and uh the applicant is put on notice
that they should file their certificate
application for certificate of filing
finance commission as soon as time
>> permits within 90 days for sure.
>> That is the motion that uh if approved.
Uh
is there a motion on the floor?
>> Is there a motion?
>> Make a motion.
>> Second.
>> No. No. I'm sorry. I think yours must be
discussion.
>> Any questions?
>> Want to go ahead and have a roll call?
>> Mr. Walker?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. McKenna?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Peterson?
>> No.
>> Mr. Mullen?
>> Yes.
>> Mr. Frick?
>> No.
Mr. Hayes.
>> Yes.
>> 42. Okay. So, uh,
the board member would that be Mr. Bar.
Okay. As advised, the applicant is
entitled to uh seven voting members. Uh
we only had six this evening. Uh I would
urge that uh Mr. Gart hear the uh
application as soon as possible and then
uh issue their vote. So uh there is not
a vote as of this evening. The record is
still open. Uh
>> thank you.
And uh
>> we're going to go for changes to mine.
>> You good with that, Dan?
>> I'm good.
>> Thank Thank you very much.
>> Um yeah,
>> so record until Mr. G. Here's the
application and uh issues of vote.
>> Very good. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank
you very much.
>> Thank you.
I just
look
like
I still need something. I'd buy the
replacement rubber things to put in.
>> You're not done.
>> Yeah, you'll Yeah, we'll have to watch
it.
Well, she was
next to him. I
just he
wouldn't necessarily he'd have to
talk about you know
not good.
I did.
>> I did tonight.
>> Okay, I'll let Jackie know. She gave me
a list.
>> I know. I got an email from her today.
>> You're not on.
>> All right. What do we got?
>> All right. Moving on with the meeting.
We have old business. Any old business?
Council report.
>> Public comments. Would anybody in the
public like to speak?
>> Nobody. Questions and comments from the
board.
>> So, how does Mr. Gar hear about this?
Through
>> how will he hear about it?
>> Yeah, because he asked
>> I'm going to ask Donna to contact. Uh
however
um the record is open for now. Uh the
applicant also has the right and this
might satisfy the board even more to uh
amend the application and come back with
a complete application site plan and uh
variance application all together so
that you get the full picture.
>> Why? because we're missing
>> amendments.
>> Well, if it gets voted down, he can't
come back for the
>> right. But right now,
>> shouldn't it be separate anyway? The
variance should be separate from if they
were to come in with the application
that Mr. Peterson
envisioned, right?
>> It would have been an application for uh
site plan approval D1 and D2 varants.
you would have heard the you would have
still been sitting as a zoning board uh
with planning board uh jurisdiction over
the site plan. Uh you would have heard
that uh all in conjunction with one
another and it would have been a a
cleaner package. Uh you would have saw
the site plans uh the site uh conditions
that they were talking about that they
would like to improve. Um
you know it's the board heard the
application with respect and as Ryan had
pointed out normally on this is not
uncommon for an undeveloped site right
>> you come in for use variance uh and like
you said before dumping a lot of money
into a site plan approval you see can we
do it you know um
the cannabis use on vacant property that
is in highway commercial. Someone wants
to do that. They have a vision that they
can make that right. They come in, they
go for the use variance. Once you
granted that use variance, they then
come back for preliminary and final site
plan approval. That's a typical process.
In this situation, you had a use that's
been there, multiple uses, a multi-use
site that's been there forever,
and
you know, someone came in and said,
"Well, we want to change that use or
expand it slightly, but with the same
framework in place." Uh, but you know,
we don't really need to change anything.
we can just go in and the and the
comment that you know I heard earlier uh
I think it was Mr. McKenna said, you
know, they're they're kind of doing the
same thing that has always been done
there. Uh, vehicles are being parked
there. There was a used car lot.
Vehicles were parked there. Now, albeit
these are different type types of
vehicles. Uh, well, so all mechanics
there, they're actually lessening the
intensity of the use because you won't
have someone working on cars or working
on a uh, you know, on uh, other things
that are there. Uh, they're literally
just coming in. They're storing uh
industrial tools and things of that
nature in a site and they're coming in
and they improved the they improved it.
It's going to be less intense. They have
the uh they cleaned up the oil uh
contamination and things of that nature.
So, uh it was a step in the right
direction, but you know, as Mr. used and
say, "Look, you know, you got to at some
point I want to see, you know, because
I'm used to seeing it. I want to see how
that this place is going to look because
you've had enough trouble with
people that come in and say they're
going to do something and and they don't
do it." So now you're this is a
situation where you're getting someone
that's going to come that's going to
say, "Hey, I'm not only going to promise
you that I'm going to do it. I'm going
to have come back to the board to show
you what I'm going to do." So it it was
a leap of faith that they were asking
you to to do. Um I think by
um you know I think by all accounts that
if they showed you in a full package you
might come away with a with a different
perspective. Mhm.
>> Too too many questions that they
couldn't answer
>> as far as
>> And look, I've been on that side before,
so I have uh you know, I'm still on that
side and different municipalities
throughout the state. Uh so I understand
when you don't when you don't carry the
day by satisfying what the board wants
for their community. Uh but um that's
why you're here. You're the gatekeepers.
>> And Mrs. Torres that's usually down
there
>> or
>> uh the she here
>> or so is uh Gane an alternate
>> or he's representative for the fire
>> for the fire department.
>> Oh okay. So um so yeah it would be or
Miss Torres. Yeah Miss Torres is a
regular board member
>> or or both
>> is what I'm asking.
>> You have to look at the list of regular
members. So there's there should be nine
regular members of the land use board.
Two of them are city members. So they're
ineligible. So it be the seven members.
>> It's a regular seven when you're sitting
as a zoning board. There are seven
members,
>> right?
>> So would both of members are not here.
>> 1 2 3 4 5 6. It would be Torres would be
up to
>> he's an alternate here for tonight.
Yeah.
>> But yeah, he already participated. So
>> So contact
to listen.
>> Yeah. If Gary's an alternate, wouldn't
they both be regular members? So I think
you're just supposed to work your way
down the list and whoever's
>> my understanding.
>> Yeah.
>> So yeah, it would be Morris.
>> And and not John.
>> We'll check the list
>> or either word. I mean both. If G is the
uh is first up alphabetically.
>> That's I just want you to check out
their list.
>> We need one one additional vote, right?
>> Yes. One additional two people
participate. He's already sat and heard
the application.
>> He's already approved it.
>> But um be on the lookout for that before
Mr. G or M.
>> They had the opportunity to just say,
you know what, I I don't like the chance
it tonight and just walk away and come
back.
>> It's hard.
>> It's hard to have, but it seems like my
problem with this whole thing is rushed.
I mean, last week we proposed a meeting.
They pushed it this week. Literally,
they were paving that this morning. I
think that tenants's ready to move in
tonight. I mean, I don't It just seems
>> close by forced.
>> Yeah. I mean, so the the site work any I
mean, anything that's there, they're
allowed to restore without permit. So, I
mean, if if they were going to move a a
permit use, a retail shop, a car
mechanic, frankly, if they were going to
move them in, they could do all of the
same things and they could move in
tomorrow or as soon as they zoning
permit approval. So,
>> um you know, improvements to the site is
not necessarily indicative of, you know,
them anticipating this. Obviously,
that's what's motivating them, but um
you know, that's that's not something
out of normal course of visit they're
allowed to,
>> right? We're just looking for a change
of the use.
>> Sure.
>> But this isn't even for the homeowner.
This is for a tenant. So, if we don't
approve it, there's going to be another
tenant there. I mean, I'm assuming
>> Well, not for this type of use.
>> We've been saying that about the Acme
slave for 10 years.
>> Yep. Yep.
>> So, it's the same. And that's that's
exactly the way I felt that actually
been sitting there ever since I can
remember. And so many people have
promised everything to the city and done
nothing. This guy, at least in show of
good faith, paved the parking lot, redid
the building, put the DGA down in the
backyard, so he's got a good tenant and
he looks like he's going to comply with
everything that
we're asking.
>> That's the way I felt. Yep.
>> I felt nobody would have put that kind
of money out, you know, and they're not
going to comply, especially when they
got basically a good tenant.
>> How How did they get both of those
existing? The mechanic shop and then the
>> Probably predates the 70.
>> It was probably
>> the someone Mr. Garnick lived in the
house and he had a garage out front.
>> How did the uh the massage place just
open up? Anybody know? I know when they
you drove by there was a light in the
window and said
>> flashing light open or something.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah. That that I can't uh I can't
speak to but I mean presumably at some
point they applied to
um you know at some point they applied
for a merkantile license. It may have
been may have predated the highway
commercial zone. I don't know on the
timing. So
>> hard to say. But I wanted to circle back
to your question um that you asked to
Mr. Tiner. I think just from a point of
order the way that we vote on these when
it is a use variance and site plan we
vote on the use first is if the use
fails the site plan
exactly
>> so in the voting order when we hear an
application that they do come in with
the site plan but they require use
variance we we form the full vote we
vote on the use variance first and then
we move to the second
>> Okay.
All right. Any other questions or
comments from the board? We're good.
>> Motion to adjurnn.
>> Motion.
>> Second.
So many time.
So,
>> and I've already What's funny is I've
already done it. See?